Madonna-rama: The Artist on Music, Lifestyle, More
By Larry Flick
Madonna never stops straining at the parameters of mainstream approval.
Her controversial, best-selling book, 'Sex," blows smoke in the faces of
uptight conservatives with its stark, sensuous, and often playful photographic
images of alternative lifestyles like homosexuality and S&M. Many have
responded to the tome with outrage, while others applaud her latest effort to
boldly explore and exploit subjects previously whispered in private.
But what about "Erotica"? Like "Sex," her first studio recording since 1989's
"Like a Prayer" takes a left-of-center creative approach that aims to broaden
the terms of radio acceptability. Cute ditties like past hits "Cherish" and
"Material Girl" are replaced by intelligent, pensive tunes such as the
wrenching, AIDS-weary "in This Life," and tough, dance/hip-hop jams like
"Words" and "Waiting."
In many ways, "Erotica" comes across like a conscious return to clubland,
where her roots lie. Not surprisingly, her ardent following at this level is
so strong that "Erotica," the single, sprints to No. 1 this week on
Billboard's Club Play chart, less than one month after remixes by Louie Vega,
Kenny Gonzalez, and William Orbit were released.
Beyond its considerable lyrical strength, this album is fueled by Madonna's
astute choices in Shep Pettibone and Andre Betts as collaborators. Though they
come from opposite ends of the dance music spectrum (Pettibone is hailed as a
pioneer remixer, while Betts is a hip-hop-minded newcomer), together the three
have assembled a seamless set that has enough street-savvy to heat up
dancefloors for months, while easily maintaining a tight grip on top 40
programmers. Next we will take a closer look at the boys in La M's hood.
What follows are excerpts from our recent conversation with Madonna, who is
currently mapping out the future of her new Warner Bros.-distributed label,
Maverick, as well as her next single, "Deeper & Deeper." The cut, which is due
out at the end of the month, has already been remixed for clubs by Pettibone
and David Morales.
BILLBOARD: This is clearly your most club-accessible album. Was that
intentional?
MADONNA: When I got married and moved to California, I tried to get into that
whole lifestyle; like hanging out on the beach. And that was one way to
experience life. But then I gravitated back to New York City, and my roots,
and the club scene, which was so inspiring to me at the beginning of my
career. There's nothing better than going to the [Sound] Factory on a Saturday
night. I like to sit on a speaker, and watch humanity just pulsating, and
everybody is one. It's so cool. That's what moves me. That's the kind of music
I want to make.
BB: And the dance community has supported you throughout your career.
M: Absolutely. I identify with the underdog. I feel like I take a lot of shit,
and so does the gay and dance community. I guess misery loves company.
[Laughs] I'm not going to feel comfortable in a country club in Connecticut.
I'm a freak to those people. I want to go where other people can go and feel
like, 'we're different, but we're not freaks. We're just different."
BB: What do you think of the remixes of "Erotica"?
MADONNA: I love all of the "Madonna in My Jeep" mixes. They're great to have
sex to. They don't knock me off my feet. But I think that's because we
approach the songs from a remix point of view to begin with. To me, it was
hard to make ["Erotica"] better. Don't get me wrong, they did a good job. But
none are as sexy as the original.
BB: What do you think of your older music?
MADONNA: [Laughs] I need to get much further away from it. I go, "that's the
way I thought? God, I've changed so much!"
BB: Let's talk about the experience of working with Shep and 'Dre on this
album. They both brought out so many different things from you, vocally. For
instance, the rap on "Waiting"...
MADONNA: Isn't that song cool? The vocal on that one was taken from the demo
version of the song. My whole thing in writing and recording now is to not try
too hard, and not make a big deal about everything. I hate being off in a
vocal booth, away from everyone. I like to be in the room with everyone around
me, and with the room noise going through the mike. I'm very into what comes
off the very first time I sing a song. I like the raw, first interpretation
best; before you start thinking about it too much, and start trying to perfect
it. The truest emotion often comes the first time.
BB: Why didn't you work with people who are more established? Why take the
risk of working with relatively new producers?
MADONNA: I'm all about finding stuff beneath the surface and bringing it out.
I'm not at all interested in working with people who are part of the
establishment, or who are set in their ways. I'm a pioneer. I want to dig up
new ground, and I don't want to be safe. People aren't always going to be into
that, or want to spend their money on that. But as an artist, this is the only
thing that is going to make me happy. Shep and 'Dre are still very raw.
They're young and they're hungry. That's so exciting to work with.
BB: There seems to be a lot more angst than sex on this album.
MADONNA: I think a lot of people are on the pain tip with me- that I'm this
sad and lonely person, and that I'm cold, and that there's a lot of loneliness
in my voice. That may be true. I think this album is very cynical. In the
past, I've written a lot of songs of pure joy about living and laughing and
loving and dancing. That's all fine, but that's not all there is to life. Who
wants to hear songs that only say ;I love you baby, you're my dream come
true"?
I think my record is real female-in-the-world-today; like a woman of the '90s,
who is intelligent, has her own career, and has shit happening. ["Bye Bye
Baby"] is about a relationship in which someone tries to fuck her over, and
she says "I'm not having this." And ["Where Life Begins"] says if you want to
be involved with me, then you have to get into oral sex. This is real life.
BB: Do you think people are freaked out that a woman can take that kind of
control over her sex life?
MADONNA: Totally! I don't know one girl who I don't have that conversation
with. Guys are allowed to talk about it. I'm not trying to be a feminist, but
it's a female-in-charge kind of record. I talk about stuff you don't normally
get to talk about; like giving head, you're breaking my heart... it's not a
pretty picture, it's not perfect, but it's life.
BB: And haven't men been writing about oral sex for years?
MADONNA: Exactly! All of a sudden I write about it and it's scandal. It's
like, "No, I will not fit into this box you've made for me." That was the
whole thing with my book. The outrage... I make fun of people's outrage, too.
First I talk about the subject, and then hidden underneath all that is the
reaction I know I'm going to get, and then I address that. People think I'm
mind-fucking them.
BB: Some people seem so threatened by others who can take their day-to-day
lives and reconcile it with their sexual fantasies.
MADONNA: They don't want tot see us as happy people. They want to paint
pictures of us as being tragic and sad, or lonely and desperate. It's hard to
be different. And it's hard to be famous and different- but I wouldn't want it
any other way. [Laughs] I didn't go through all of this to end up like
somebody else.
BB: Does it bother you that such outrage and media attention to the various
things you do takes away from your music?
MADONNA: It does bother me. I wish people would... I hear people saying
they're outraged by the book, and then I find out that they've never read it.
People don't take the time to listen, understand, and read.
BB: At this point in your life, what motivates you to make music?
MADONNA: My work as an artist has nothing to do with fame and fortune. I'm a
storyteller and I have things I want to say. I find people and humanity
tremendously inspiring- whether I'm shocked and repulsed by it, or shedding
tears of joy. The more famous I am, and the more life comes racing at me at
incredible speed in all shapes and forms- especially with this book and
watching people on "Sally Jessy Raphael" arguing over me- I have truly seen
the scope of the stupidity of mankind. I'm dumbfounded. Then I think, "God,
there's so much that people don't know." It galvanizes me. People's stupidity
makes me want to regurgitate more information. I feel inspired to enlighten. I
like to do that by telling stories through songs, videos, whatever. These are
untraditional situations being played out in my songs. They're about real
people.
BB: How do you stay in touch with real people?
MADONNA: I won't live in a mansion on a hill, cut off from the world. That's
not me or where my roots are. Yeah, it can be a pain in the ass sometimes. But
I find a way to do it. I have to stay in touch with people and humanity.
Otherwise, I'll just die.
